In 1911 John finally provided conformation of his place of birth in the census returns, which for the first timne, householders had to fill in themselves. At first someone (John?) has written unknown, and then that is crossed through and Cork, Ireland is written in. I can't be sure but I think the writing is probably a women's and therefore likely to be John's wife, Elizabeth O'keefe nee Barker. What do other people think?
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ReplyDeleteMaybe John's father had a Sunday name Richard but was known as another name or vice versa. Interesting that Cath has named him a gentleman. This would mean you would not work for your living but might have a private income or a profession. He certainly does not seem to be a labourer, but he is in "trade", as a shopkeeper in the census returns.
ReplyDeleteI think she was very proud of her grandfather and she was just elevating his status because of that. She always said he only went in the signal box as something to do in old age, but now we know he was working for the railway quite early on, presumably to support his family with a wage. Thought the house owning in whitby that you've just found it a mystery. Am hoping george Barker's will will arrive this week.
DeleteI often wondered why John didn't name a son Richard - maybe he would have if he'd had more sons, but maybe he or Elizabeth didn't want to name a son Richard because of her brother. I have also wondered if the name of his father "Richard" could be an error, but as John was educated it would surely have to have been deliberate. Lots of reasons why you might not want to give your father's name - they did drop the "O" from O'Keefe - it was Mary nee Conroy married to John's son Joseph that brought it backas she was so very pro-Irish. So maybe if John's father was called something like Patrick and the Irish discriminated against / not in favour, that could be a reason?
kath was close to events - she is sure about Cork City and that John was a "gentleman". (Although his activities in Egton after being the schoolmaster were mainly trade!). This means the search has to concentrate on Cork City. There were some big milling families (John, Frances, Keeffe O'Keeffe )in Cork City with Mills on the River Lee - lots of references to them but no Richard. Why, if he is a "gentleman" would he describe his father as a miller?
ReplyDeleteWhere was the signature and date written?
ReplyDeleteI don't know that the "O" things is very significant. It seems to come and go and I can't see a pattern. Even in Ireland it comes and goes with the same individuals. This being a gentleman is significant. I don't know that a young Kath would generate that fact, without others having suggested it to her.......however, he is not an Esquire in the account of the opening of a church in the area pre 1860.
ReplyDeleteYes I have looked at Patricks too. Richard and Patrick could be mistaken when written down. But no son Richard or Patrick? Where did the name James come from? Was that a Barker name? All things considered I am not sure that the people of Egton would have been anti Catholic. They had the Rev Macartney who was very pro Irish land Reform.
ReplyDeletenot anti-Catholic, but maybe anti-Irish feeling around sometimes
DeleteIn 1911 there are two teachers from Wexford in Egton Bridge near to St Hedda's Row - I was coasting up and down the census to try find out where St Hedda's Row was/is and I found the pair of them. Mary Jane and Frances Patricia Nicholson. I suppose the Irish were mainly up in the industrial areas. Would they have suppressed the Irishness of the father? If he had an accent, that was probably a bit tricky.
DeleteI have been examining the family bible entry with my little ultra violet torch but have not made any exciting discoveries. It might need a more expert examination. The date might be 1648 not 1848 although I am not sure. Certainly people were not usually hung drawn and quartered much in the nineteenth century. To be beheaded is quite a severe penalty and fits well with an earlier date such as when the English stomped around Ireland beheading all the priests and bishops and after around 1648 they transported them instead of executing them. Someone who was sentenced to be beheaded but was then transported instead is most likely to be a heroic priest or other potential martyr of that time. In England, they would have just beheaded or hung the priests that they caught. I can't find record of any being transported instead. The subject of the note is "of Dublin" and that is quite clear.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Kath think Cork was in Kerry?
ReplyDeleteWas John a sea captain or did he work his passage to England on a cargo ship, having some experience of working a ship. Cork and the other ports along that coast had a very busy trade with England. I am still pondering the family in Waterford that made earthenware and owned ships. Cardinal Wiseman came from Waterford and he founded the Sisters of Nazareth and John could have met him in Scarborough and Ugthorpe when the churches were built there. Although Wiseman was not really Waterford man, he just lived there a little while in childhood.