Well here is some more info on the Youghal Keefe thing. During this I wandered off into some Keefe family that lived in Rock Mills which turns out to be a village - with a mill of course but owned by the rich people .. which is where it always ends......
David O'Keeffe Merchant of Youghal b.? d. 1870 ish
David was married twice. I have not found the first wife (this time, I am going over old old ground here) and Ellen Troy was his second wife. Ellen the daughter of John Troy merchant Youghal.
1835 They married in Youghal 1835 witnesses William and Ellen Cunningham.
Children found
1837 Peter born in Garrylaurence Imogeely Clonmult Cork to David Keefe and Ellen Keefe - this could or could not be David Keeffe and Ellen Troy. But hold on till the end. sponsors Edmund Keefe and Ellen Callahan. Probably not.
1837 Elizabeth Mich Sullivan Eliz Fitzg. Y
1841 Margaret born in Catherine Street Youghal
1844 Mary born in QuayYoughal it will by Y for Youghal now...
1846 Margaret sponors John Troy and Mary Keeffe Y
1849 Ellen sponsors Richard and Ann Fitzgerald. Hang on to that Y
1854 Mary Frances spn David Cunningham and Mary Keeffe Y
1863 Newsp, report death of Maggie Keeffe dr of David and Ellen Keeffe. Y
1868 Marriage of Ann ?second daughter of David Keeffe to somebody Barber Edgecombe... of London son of a doctor, David went into business with him, then dies in 1870ish and then wife Ellen and Barber Edgecombe go bankrupt. Another daughter marries a joiner and immigrates to New York where the trail goes cold.
OK so far so good.
Fitzgeralds are at Muckridge. Muckridge House - quite a posh lot with a pedigree and what have you found on line with a good google round.
In 1848 Muckridge House and lands in Copper Alley are for sale by auction and it is David O'Keeffe of Youghal to show the property or give details or what have you. The eldest scion of the house of Fitzgerald one Richard Fitzg. b 1800 ish - was an MP (He dies 1849) and he, as heir to his father Richard Fitz, has all the lands Muckridge and much more, including an estate at Rathronan in Tipperary which is near Clonmel and connects to a Richard Keeffe miller who died in 1852.
In 1872 plus there are repeated, attempted sales of the estate of the late David Keeffe which include some lands around Muckridge House and other properties which he has built. Copper Alley is a part industrialised area in Youghal and connects to David.
This connects David O'Keeffe merchant with the Fitzgerald family of Muckridge somehow.
Ploughing through a search for kinder of any David Keefe on Ireland Roots website I found another interesting family. Well, refound them as I have been down this road before.....
David Keeffe marries Mary Fitzgerald in Youghal in 1810.
Children found
1811 John b Y
1813 James b Y
1815 David b Y
1819 John b Y
1820 Michael sponsors Mich Sullivan and Catherine Troy b Y
1822 Margaret spnsrs Buckley and Mgt Keeffe
And so back to Garrylaurence
One child born to a David Keeffe is
John Keeffe born 1835 Garrylaurence sponsors John Callaghan and Ann Keeffe the mother is given as Mary Keeffe but might not have been a Keeffe by birth (possible a Fitzgerald)
. If you look back above you have a Peter born 2 years later who sounds like he might be part of David/Ellen family but born in Garrylaurence.
So these two belong the same family with different mothers - as David Keeffe was a widower when he married Ellen Troy it might be the first wife was a Mary.
Just one more co incidence maybe.
Going back along the Fitzgerald family we have a William who married into a family called Strange. The Archbishop of England whose name escapes me just now that came from Waterford was the son of a Strange woman and he spent time in Waterford in his teens in a place connected with the Strange family, not sure where now, I will have to look it up again. This Archbishop started the Nazareth Order of nuns in England. A Strange thing.
I have a feeling from earlier research that David Keefe and Mary Fitzgerald were in Garrylaurence... Griffiths valuation David Keeffe 111 acres house offices land. Also a Catherine Keeffe with a small house next door.
So now I know lots more about Youghal Keeffe's although not sure where it gets us. One thing for certain there was a Richard Keeffe in Youghal around 1840 who petitions in Parliament around losing his vote in the election. But who was he, where was he born?
None of this connects to Cork City and St Finbarr's. If there is some connection to our Richard Keeffe miller it would have to be that he died fairly young and the widow moved to Cork City. But it gives us no connection to St Finbarrs.
All about as clear as Muckridge!
A little more about Rathronan
Griffiths Valuation
John Connor renting House Offices flour mill corn mill from Ths. Sml. Grubb (Grubbs are big Quaker milling connections)
And a little footnote about Richard Fitzgerald Senior of Muckridge, and Mooristown Kildare he married Ann Nagle a noted beauty in 1804 and she was lauded by the poet Lysaght.
Saturday, 28 April 2018
Friday, 27 April 2018
A few days ago I started to write this and saved it but then, when I came back to finish off I could not find the draft. So I wrote it again. Then I managed to publish the draft which appeared suddenly, well anyway, in a general mess here.
But I am going to publish this too as it is part of the thinking together process and there is different information in both posts.
Ramble ramble ramble
So. Richard Keefe/Keeffe/O'Keefe ...etc ...... Miller?
It is most unfortunate that Cork is full of mills. There is a mill in every village and town. The place is full of fast, wild, waters that love to turn mill water wheels. In fact, Ireland is full of mills - paper mills, flour mills, tuck mills, linen mills, woollen mills, clay mills, industrial steam mills.......
What does "Miller" mean?
Windy Miller from Trumpton hauling sacks of flour?
A mill in Cork City?
Is Richard a Mill Owner or a mill manager?
Is he connected to a milling family? Does he work for the family firm? (John is educated = money and some kind of status or connection.)
Cork City has some mills on the River Lee. St Dominics Mill on an island ... mills at Cross Green. Nearby mills. On the Blackwater. Coachford. Clonmoyle.Brinny. Youghal. Etc Etc. But every town has plenty of mills. It is like searching for a mill in a mill economy.
Is Richard a miller or as most wealthier millers were, also a merchant, corn, flour, animal feed, timber, earthenware, ...........
...... and there is also a ship connection. A seafaring tradition. Richard's son, our John, is reported to have some seamanship skills. Connections. Cork, Youghal, Wexford, Tralee, Ireland is full of ports exporting grain, butter, timber etc and importing coal.......
If you google enough you will find some notable Richard Keefe millers. Not in Cork City though. One family of Keefes were in Kildare at Rathangan and were a major maker of flour in 1782. They are recorded in Parliamentary Papers/Reports. Sadly in 1798 during a Rebellion, British troops were quartered on them and the family lost so much feed and supplies that they were in debt and lost the mill. That is in Kildare.
There is a Richard Keefe miller in Rathmolyon (County Meath) in Griffiths Valuation with a mill that was so lacking in water power that it did not run for some of the year. This mill is
lost.
A notable Richard Keefe was in Iffernock in the town of Trim in County Meath from 1845 ish to some time later..... a Richard who was celebrated for improvements in the processing of flour and who married into the Synott family of Waterford (merchants).
In Cork City we have a Keefe O'Keeffe at a mill on the river Lee and a Francis Keefe probably connected and they have records around 1820 to 1840 for activities on the aforesaid river......well documented in various places..... St dominics Mill (distillery) and Crosses Green. Keefe has property on Main Street Cork (st Finbars) and there is actually a Richard Keefe in Main Street around the time of Griffiths Valuation.
At Brinny we have a John Keefe with a manager who was from Waterford and continues in the milling trade after the closure of the mill in Brinny.
There is a Helen Keefe who marries John Sherlock of Ballyquane Mills (Glanford Mills) and some documented history around this. They are connected to Woodville, Killshanig.
There is a Patrick Keefe at Ballyartella mills who has a lively history
And David Keefe with a clay mill, coal merchant, grain merchant, ship owner in Youghal with great connections and history around 1850 to 1870 .. connected to somewhere called Muckridge and so on so forth. His widow goes bankrupt around 1870 with the help of her son in law. One of the matriachal connections is Helen Troy,
Lastly we have a Richard Keefe of Rathronan Mills died 1852 and the mills... later in the hands of a Mahoney and burnt down in 1880 something. Near to Clonmel and the burial place of William Smith O'Brien. Sentenced to be hung etc and then transported.
Notable, significant and recorded Richard Keefes are in Newmarket, Fermoy and Waterford. They are gentlemen, relieving officers, and so on.
And then there is Mooncoin. Which has an extant mill and a history of Richard Keefes.
There is a John Keefe born 1838 in Ballymacoda Ladysbridge who was near a mill and near Youghal.
But I am going to publish this too as it is part of the thinking together process and there is different information in both posts.
Ramble ramble ramble
So. Richard Keefe/Keeffe/O'Keefe ...etc ...... Miller?
It is most unfortunate that Cork is full of mills. There is a mill in every village and town. The place is full of fast, wild, waters that love to turn mill water wheels. In fact, Ireland is full of mills - paper mills, flour mills, tuck mills, linen mills, woollen mills, clay mills, industrial steam mills.......
What does "Miller" mean?
Windy Miller from Trumpton hauling sacks of flour?
A mill in Cork City?
Is Richard a Mill Owner or a mill manager?
Is he connected to a milling family? Does he work for the family firm? (John is educated = money and some kind of status or connection.)
Cork City has some mills on the River Lee. St Dominics Mill on an island ... mills at Cross Green. Nearby mills. On the Blackwater. Coachford. Clonmoyle.Brinny. Youghal. Etc Etc. But every town has plenty of mills. It is like searching for a mill in a mill economy.
Is Richard a miller or as most wealthier millers were, also a merchant, corn, flour, animal feed, timber, earthenware, ...........
...... and there is also a ship connection. A seafaring tradition. Richard's son, our John, is reported to have some seamanship skills. Connections. Cork, Youghal, Wexford, Tralee, Ireland is full of ports exporting grain, butter, timber etc and importing coal.......
If you google enough you will find some notable Richard Keefe millers. Not in Cork City though. One family of Keefes were in Kildare at Rathangan and were a major maker of flour in 1782. They are recorded in Parliamentary Papers/Reports. Sadly in 1798 during a Rebellion, British troops were quartered on them and the family lost so much feed and supplies that they were in debt and lost the mill. That is in Kildare.
There is a Richard Keefe miller in Rathmolyon (County Meath) in Griffiths Valuation with a mill that was so lacking in water power that it did not run for some of the year. This mill is
lost.
A notable Richard Keefe was in Iffernock in the town of Trim in County Meath from 1845 ish to some time later..... a Richard who was celebrated for improvements in the processing of flour and who married into the Synott family of Waterford (merchants).
In Cork City we have a Keefe O'Keeffe at a mill on the river Lee and a Francis Keefe probably connected and they have records around 1820 to 1840 for activities on the aforesaid river......well documented in various places..... St dominics Mill (distillery) and Crosses Green. Keefe has property on Main Street Cork (st Finbars) and there is actually a Richard Keefe in Main Street around the time of Griffiths Valuation.
At Brinny we have a John Keefe with a manager who was from Waterford and continues in the milling trade after the closure of the mill in Brinny.
There is a Helen Keefe who marries John Sherlock of Ballyquane Mills (Glanford Mills) and some documented history around this. They are connected to Woodville, Killshanig.
There is a Patrick Keefe at Ballyartella mills who has a lively history
And David Keefe with a clay mill, coal merchant, grain merchant, ship owner in Youghal with great connections and history around 1850 to 1870 .. connected to somewhere called Muckridge and so on so forth. His widow goes bankrupt around 1870 with the help of her son in law. One of the matriachal connections is Helen Troy,
Lastly we have a Richard Keefe of Rathronan Mills died 1852 and the mills... later in the hands of a Mahoney and burnt down in 1880 something. Near to Clonmel and the burial place of William Smith O'Brien. Sentenced to be hung etc and then transported.
Notable, significant and recorded Richard Keefes are in Newmarket, Fermoy and Waterford. They are gentlemen, relieving officers, and so on.
And then there is Mooncoin. Which has an extant mill and a history of Richard Keefes.
There is a John Keefe born 1838 in Ballymacoda Ladysbridge who was near a mill and near Youghal.
Millers
So what does "miller" mean in 1867 in rural North Yorkshire?
What would it mean in Cork, Ireland?
Does it mean something different in rural Cork and in the City of Cork.
Does John's father work a mill, manage a mill or own a mill?
Does he come from a mill owning and or merchant family?
What does it mean to be a miller in 1820 after the Peninsular Wars and so on.. and Canadian corn being widely imported? During and after the Famine.
Was the mill a corn mill, wool mill, paper mill, wood mill, clay mill, water or steam?
Below I use Keefe generally as it is quick to type. Dates are not accurately given here, just general impressions.
Richard O'keefe is described as a miller on son John's marriage certificate. There is a corn mill in Egton Bridge and John's wife Elizabeth, -her family live next to that mill. The mill is rebuilt in 1871 and there are variously people there who are the millers but who do not own the mill. John's son in law, Austin Dunwell - his family eventually live in the Mill house but are not the millers and information about them includes the record of a fire which near destroyed the Mill house but luckily they were insured. I wonder what John thought of all this. Did he take an interest in the mill in Egton Bridge or was he not interested in his father's trade. He is listed in Trade Directory as an Earthenware dealer and the Austins owned several brick ones including one near Egton Bridge ie Grosmont. There is also a sale of a tilery brick works in Egton around 1850 which I can find listed but not see on the page of the newspaper. This might be what brought the Austins from Leeds to Egton around 1865.
This is all rambling by the way. Off the top of my head. So dates and details are not going to be given, just thoughts.
It is not possible to find a Richard O'Keefe, miller, in Cork that fits with John's history. It is not possible to find John's birth record at St Finbarr's in Cork. I'll come back to this later.
Are there any Richard Keefe millers in Ireland. Yes. Quite notable examples and some other connections.
Rathangan Kildare. Richad Keefe has a mill which is recorded in Parliamentary Papers which dealt with the amounts of flour produced and no doubt, coming out of Ireland. Napoleonic Wars and all that. These records are 1780 ish and in 1798 it is known that Rathangan was the scene of bloodshed and distress in the 1798 Rebellion. The mill and stores were used by English troops and no recompense was given and there is documented protest from the family and in fact, they lost the mill. They went bankrupt. It also appears they were distillers as well. What I know from looking at Yorkshire mills and millers and bankruptcy is that people pop up again and get into business again if they are that way out. But all this has no connection to Cork City.
Rathmolyon, Kilballyporter County Meath. Another Richard Keefe this time in Griffiths Valuation circa 1840 with a mill and property too. The mill is not a good one and has no power for much of the year. The man also goes bankrupt around 1850 but the mill is still in the family a bit later. A Richard Keefe of Kilballyporter dies around 1872 and leaves something in his will. Not connected to Cork City though.
Knock/ nock/ Iffernock/Ifferknock in Trim, County Meath. This Richard Keefe is a gentleman in the end and has family that make good connection - he also connects to Dublin as would any man of standing and some substance. This mill burns in 1850 but was insured and rebuilt. It is still extant but ruinous. But this is not Cork City.
Rathronan Mills - 1852 there is a reference to a Will of one Richard Keefe of Rathronan Mills (near Clonmel and in Lismore Diocese not too far from Youghal) Rathronan Mills were burnt down in 188something and at the time they were connected to Thomas Mahoney. The fire was malicious. This is not too far from Cork, there are no references in Griffiths Valuation to this man. There does seem to be a John Keefe major landowner thereabouts. Rathronan is the burial place of William Smith O'Brien, an Irish patriot and leader (Young Ireland movement maybe?) Although the Will says this man was of Rathronan Mills it might not mean that he lived at Rathronan. This is probably the best Richard Keefe Miller that we have right now.
.
Mills with connections to Keefes
Patrick Keefe - a mill in Ballymartle County Cork. This Patrick was litiginous! Around 1855 he immigrates to Australia or that way, and loses his family in the journey.
John Keefe - Brinny a corn mill with a young man from Waterford as manager seen in the Census of 1901 but goes out of business soon after that. Upton County Cork
Clonmoyle Mills Coachford near Cork - trade directory; D. Keefe, Clonmoyle mills - mills were not owned by Keefe's as far as I can make out.
Cork City - Crosses Green/St Dominic's Mill Keefe O'Keeffe miller on the River Lee - features in Parliamentary Papers and in newspapers in connection with problems of water and channel blockage on the river Lee. Also a bit of bankruptcy. In connection with Keefe we also have Francis Keefe Miller in around the same place/ date - only references are in newspaper. Keefe O'Keeffe is quite nebulous but features in Trade Directories and has another address Main Street in St Finbarr's parish. He also seems to be a merchant which was often the case, as millers might market corn or whatever they milled and other stuff, and were into business opportunities and investment. They might also be provisions dealers or bakers. Also, this Keefe and family, they were big distillers too. Big port, ships, trade and milling.
David Keefe of Youghal. Ship owner, coal and grain merchant, earthenware maker (bricks?) with Clay Mill, benefactor..... married Ellen Troy, owned Muckridge which was a big house in Youghal area. Not sure of date of death but his widow in conjunction with one son in law, went bankrupt... but she is still listed as a Ship Owner after this ie after around 1870 ish. David has offices in North Main Street in Youghal and a mill and warehouses /coal yard on the harbour front. At the very least this Keefe miller gives us ideas of what it might be like to be a miller in Cork County in the middle of the nineteenth century. Connections might be John Keefe MP.
Thurles - Richard Keefe has a tuck mill there later in the century and the connection might be to Dixon Keefe of Thurles who certainly was a wealthy man with milling interests. The Horse and Jockey was an Inn with a John O'Keefe running a grocer's shop in the village too. But the dates are late and so if this is our connection there would need to researching back which so far has produced no good connections.
Lastly in Glanworth John Sherlock of Ballyquane Mills in 1835 married Helen O'Keefe , he d 1862 and his sister Honora married a John O'Keeffe ... Woodville Buttevant. Ballyquane Mill was Glanworth Mill which has some information about it featuring in a Encumbered Estate sale .. Glanworth Mill is still extant complete with water wheel although Ballyquane might have one of a group of mills thereabouts in Glanworth.
So?
The best fit might be Richard Keefe d 1852 Rathronan Mills - this might be someone who had a mill but lived in a house in Cork City or whose family went to Cork City after his death.
But considering the St Finbarr information. We have Keefe O'Keeffe and Francis O'Keeffe milling on the River Lee in Cork City in St Finbarr parish with plenty of references to Richard Keefe(s) in the birth records at St Finbarrs just not for a son John in the right kind of date. IN Griffiths valuation one Richard Keefe (and there are not that many) is listed in Main Street City of Cork. There is a death of a Richard mid century ish who was a grocer provision dealer in Cork City. Actually I am not sure now but I will check. - Keefe O'Keeffe also has a base in Main Street Cork City. This would be much more fun as the connection to distilling is knocking around there.
That is all the Keefe millers I can think of offhand. Mill and Millers of Ireland provide a fairly complete list but I notice that Brinny Mill is not listed so there must be some omissions even in that expert document. Next I will consider all the possible Richard Keefe's that pop up in other guises but not today.
What would it mean in Cork, Ireland?
Does it mean something different in rural Cork and in the City of Cork.
Does John's father work a mill, manage a mill or own a mill?
Does he come from a mill owning and or merchant family?
What does it mean to be a miller in 1820 after the Peninsular Wars and so on.. and Canadian corn being widely imported? During and after the Famine.
Was the mill a corn mill, wool mill, paper mill, wood mill, clay mill, water or steam?
Below I use Keefe generally as it is quick to type. Dates are not accurately given here, just general impressions.
Richard O'keefe is described as a miller on son John's marriage certificate. There is a corn mill in Egton Bridge and John's wife Elizabeth, -her family live next to that mill. The mill is rebuilt in 1871 and there are variously people there who are the millers but who do not own the mill. John's son in law, Austin Dunwell - his family eventually live in the Mill house but are not the millers and information about them includes the record of a fire which near destroyed the Mill house but luckily they were insured. I wonder what John thought of all this. Did he take an interest in the mill in Egton Bridge or was he not interested in his father's trade. He is listed in Trade Directory as an Earthenware dealer and the Austins owned several brick ones including one near Egton Bridge ie Grosmont. There is also a sale of a tilery brick works in Egton around 1850 which I can find listed but not see on the page of the newspaper. This might be what brought the Austins from Leeds to Egton around 1865.
This is all rambling by the way. Off the top of my head. So dates and details are not going to be given, just thoughts.
It is not possible to find a Richard O'Keefe, miller, in Cork that fits with John's history. It is not possible to find John's birth record at St Finbarr's in Cork. I'll come back to this later.
Are there any Richard Keefe millers in Ireland. Yes. Quite notable examples and some other connections.
Rathangan Kildare. Richad Keefe has a mill which is recorded in Parliamentary Papers which dealt with the amounts of flour produced and no doubt, coming out of Ireland. Napoleonic Wars and all that. These records are 1780 ish and in 1798 it is known that Rathangan was the scene of bloodshed and distress in the 1798 Rebellion. The mill and stores were used by English troops and no recompense was given and there is documented protest from the family and in fact, they lost the mill. They went bankrupt. It also appears they were distillers as well. What I know from looking at Yorkshire mills and millers and bankruptcy is that people pop up again and get into business again if they are that way out. But all this has no connection to Cork City.
Rathmolyon, Kilballyporter County Meath. Another Richard Keefe this time in Griffiths Valuation circa 1840 with a mill and property too. The mill is not a good one and has no power for much of the year. The man also goes bankrupt around 1850 but the mill is still in the family a bit later. A Richard Keefe of Kilballyporter dies around 1872 and leaves something in his will. Not connected to Cork City though.
Knock/ nock/ Iffernock/Ifferknock in Trim, County Meath. This Richard Keefe is a gentleman in the end and has family that make good connection - he also connects to Dublin as would any man of standing and some substance. This mill burns in 1850 but was insured and rebuilt. It is still extant but ruinous. But this is not Cork City.
Rathronan Mills - 1852 there is a reference to a Will of one Richard Keefe of Rathronan Mills (near Clonmel and in Lismore Diocese not too far from Youghal) Rathronan Mills were burnt down in 188something and at the time they were connected to Thomas Mahoney. The fire was malicious. This is not too far from Cork, there are no references in Griffiths Valuation to this man. There does seem to be a John Keefe major landowner thereabouts. Rathronan is the burial place of William Smith O'Brien, an Irish patriot and leader (Young Ireland movement maybe?) Although the Will says this man was of Rathronan Mills it might not mean that he lived at Rathronan. This is probably the best Richard Keefe Miller that we have right now.
.
Mills with connections to Keefes
Patrick Keefe - a mill in Ballymartle County Cork. This Patrick was litiginous! Around 1855 he immigrates to Australia or that way, and loses his family in the journey.
John Keefe - Brinny a corn mill with a young man from Waterford as manager seen in the Census of 1901 but goes out of business soon after that. Upton County Cork
Clonmoyle Mills Coachford near Cork - trade directory; D. Keefe, Clonmoyle mills - mills were not owned by Keefe's as far as I can make out.
Cork City - Crosses Green/St Dominic's Mill Keefe O'Keeffe miller on the River Lee - features in Parliamentary Papers and in newspapers in connection with problems of water and channel blockage on the river Lee. Also a bit of bankruptcy. In connection with Keefe we also have Francis Keefe Miller in around the same place/ date - only references are in newspaper. Keefe O'Keeffe is quite nebulous but features in Trade Directories and has another address Main Street in St Finbarr's parish. He also seems to be a merchant which was often the case, as millers might market corn or whatever they milled and other stuff, and were into business opportunities and investment. They might also be provisions dealers or bakers. Also, this Keefe and family, they were big distillers too. Big port, ships, trade and milling.
David Keefe of Youghal. Ship owner, coal and grain merchant, earthenware maker (bricks?) with Clay Mill, benefactor..... married Ellen Troy, owned Muckridge which was a big house in Youghal area. Not sure of date of death but his widow in conjunction with one son in law, went bankrupt... but she is still listed as a Ship Owner after this ie after around 1870 ish. David has offices in North Main Street in Youghal and a mill and warehouses /coal yard on the harbour front. At the very least this Keefe miller gives us ideas of what it might be like to be a miller in Cork County in the middle of the nineteenth century. Connections might be John Keefe MP.
Thurles - Richard Keefe has a tuck mill there later in the century and the connection might be to Dixon Keefe of Thurles who certainly was a wealthy man with milling interests. The Horse and Jockey was an Inn with a John O'Keefe running a grocer's shop in the village too. But the dates are late and so if this is our connection there would need to researching back which so far has produced no good connections.
Lastly in Glanworth John Sherlock of Ballyquane Mills in 1835 married Helen O'Keefe , he d 1862 and his sister Honora married a John O'Keeffe ... Woodville Buttevant. Ballyquane Mill was Glanworth Mill which has some information about it featuring in a Encumbered Estate sale .. Glanworth Mill is still extant complete with water wheel although Ballyquane might have one of a group of mills thereabouts in Glanworth.
So?
The best fit might be Richard Keefe d 1852 Rathronan Mills - this might be someone who had a mill but lived in a house in Cork City or whose family went to Cork City after his death.
But considering the St Finbarr information. We have Keefe O'Keeffe and Francis O'Keeffe milling on the River Lee in Cork City in St Finbarr parish with plenty of references to Richard Keefe(s) in the birth records at St Finbarrs just not for a son John in the right kind of date. IN Griffiths valuation one Richard Keefe (and there are not that many) is listed in Main Street City of Cork. There is a death of a Richard mid century ish who was a grocer provision dealer in Cork City. Actually I am not sure now but I will check. - Keefe O'Keeffe also has a base in Main Street Cork City. This would be much more fun as the connection to distilling is knocking around there.
That is all the Keefe millers I can think of offhand. Mill and Millers of Ireland provide a fairly complete list but I notice that Brinny Mill is not listed so there must be some omissions even in that expert document. Next I will consider all the possible Richard Keefe's that pop up in other guises but not today.
Monday, 16 April 2018
Page from Monica's Album
Sunday, 15 April 2018
Thursday, 12 April 2018
The photographs are engaging. John's date of birth might be a little imprecise. So how old is he in the photographs? Ideas about this would help because it is not possible to find a suitable baptism at St Finbar's in Cork for 1836.
The photos of the mystery woman, is it Mary or Elizabeth?
This photograph shows all the family of Keefe's in Glaisdale, minus James who died circa 1883 (Will Mama ever forget him No Never) and little baby Agnes is still to come.
What can be read from the photograph? I see a gap there in the back row for a little boy who would have been 8 years old. I would not be arguing with that toddler on Mama's knee. William looks like he might bite too. They must be wearing their Sunday Best - are they affluent or struggling? I also see a little Irishman with sad eyes, not quite so tall as his wife or maybe just sitting on a lower stool? Mary Ann and George look alike - the other children have a different face structure. The girls are all very pretty but I imagine they all wear black. Mary Ann and Helen, 20 and 18 respectively have their photograph taken together in the same costumes on the same day. Why was the photograph taken just here and now. Why no smiles for the camera? Looking through other photos of the era online, they do seem a miserable lot, and it is hard to recognize the John who played at the Ball in his Quadrille Band and sang slightly risque songs at the Catholic Concerts in Egton Bridge. By 1991 some of the children have left home and only the four youngest children are still at home. ie Elizabeth, William, Frances and Agnes.
Photos below - from Monica O'Keefe's photo album, shared with me (Karen) by Wyn Simmons
Tuesday, 10 April 2018
The daughters of John O'Keefe and Elizabeth Keefe nee Barker
6 daughters! Mary Anna 1868, Helen (Nellie in the family bible) 1870, Eliza 1875, Elizabeth 1878, Frances 1886 and Agnes 1889
1871 Glaisdale: 4 Carr End, Glaisdale. John Keefe 35, booking clerk, out of employ, Elizabeth Keefe 25, Mary Anna Keefe 3, Helen Keefe 1. John's age given as 35, wife is 25, whereas in 1861 his age is given as 28. Has he lowered his age slightly to narrow the gap a bit to only 10 years!
1881 Glaisdale: John Keeffe 46, Elizabeth Keeffe 36, Mary A. Keeffe 13, Helen Keeffe 11, George Keeffe 9, Joseph Keeffe 8, Eliza Keeffe 6, Elizabeth Keeffe 3, James Keeffe 1
1891 Glaisdale: 11 Aincliffe Terrace. John Keefe 55, block signalman, Elizabeth Keefe 45, Elizabeth Keefe 13, William Keefe 9, Frances Keefe 5, Agnes Keefe 2
1891 Blossom St, St Mary's Convent, York: Ellen O'Keefe 21 b. Glasidale is General Servant Domestic (1 of several), various staff and girls being educated. Was she a nun then?
1891 1 Broomfield Terrace, Ruswarp. Eliza is a domestic servant at the Private School of Miss Smurthwaite (born Stokesley) where her Aunt Hannah Mary Barker is a teacher of music, later the Principal. In 1915 Eliza marries Austin Dunwell (brickmaker born Egton Bridge), and moves to Darlington.
1891 - Mary - not found - maybe at Sisters of nazareth?
1895; Miss E O'Keefe of Glaisdale, in 1895, gains honours in the Intermediate Music Exams at Stockton (Trinity College London) and in 1896 she passes the Senior Division of Musical Theoretical Examination. I think that is Eliza, could be Elizabeth. I (Karen) think it's likelt to be Eliza too because of the music connection - see Aunt Hannah, teacher of music, above.
1901 Egton Bridge. John O keefe 64 railway Signalman, Elizabeth O keefe 54, Frances O keefe 15, Agnes O keefe, 12, Celia Glen 7 adopted daughter b. bradford, Norah Lundrigan 5 adopted dau b. Bradford. Next schedule is Station Hotel, then Leyburn Hall
1901 Mary Anna - not found
1901 Stokesley, Lancs - Rev John Conlan 43. Ellen Okeeffe 30 Servant - she is Housekeeper for a Catholic priest in Stokesley, John Conlan born Ireland aged 43.
1901 Eliza and Elizabeth are at Carr End/View and Eliza gives her occupation as "Dressmaker" In 1899 and in 1900 these Misses Keefe are having paying guests at Carr End Glaisdale.
Boarding houses in Manchester.
1911 Census we have Eliza, Helen and George Keeffe - The address was 4 Alexandra Road South. Eliza is head and Boarding House Keeper, helen is Assistant Borading House keeper, George is Boarder.
The house has 14 rooms and is opposite a plant nursery (Alfred James Downes, nurseryman and florist) and opposite the new English Martyrs Catholic Church. It is adjacent to the Methodist Training College and a little further down the road is a big Catholic boarding school and the home of the Bishop - St Bede's College/St Bede's Lodge, also a Convent and girl's school. There is also a house numbered 4a. On Scotland Old Maps you can see the area around 1911 or thereabouts and there are two semis opposite the church and nursery which I think might be the property. It is a very prestigious address and the other houses are great mansions with the Chief of Police adjacent and other professionals. The rooms at number 4 are taken by various lodgers all sounding most respectable. How did they get there? Were they renting? Obviously George has moved to Manchester -and the sisters have followed him to look after him and/or set up a little business? Did they just all move in renting and then by some fluke were asked to run the place? Perhaps it was a job that they saw advertised or something like that. It must have been after 1901 when George was already by himself lodging in Moss Side and Eliza and Helen were elsewhere. What happened to George's domestic service when Eliza married Austin Dunwell?
In 1911 Elizabeth O'Keefe is also keeping a Boarding House in Manchester at 8 Claremont Rd Alexandra Park (8 rooms) . Elizabeth Keefe 38 Boarding House Keeper, Cecila Glenn 16 boarder and variour other boarders. In 1924 she marries John grayson in Lanchester district, Co Durham. She dies Jan 1944. [In 1939 register I found 2 possible Elizabeth Graysons in Co Durham, one with spouse John on a farm and he is a Horse keeper, So I'm not sure this is very likely.]
In 1911 Sister Mildred (Mary Anna) is one of 4 nuns helping to run Nazareth House school for boys in Treforest Pontypool, Wales. In 1919-1922 a Sr Mildred is Superior at this school - probably our Mary.
1911 Frances O'Keefe in 1911, is working as a bar attendant/rest room at Central Station Hotel Newcastle but progresses to Book Keeper. I think I remember Aunty Kath telling me that the Dunwell's had a care of her since they had no children of their own. Aunty Kath told me (Karen) that Frances went with a friend - Miss race - to study book-keeping at evening classes in York.
1911 Agnes - not yet found. Also was a nun - same order as Mary Anna- died in Manchester. Apparently Elizabeth also spent some time in a convent but came out and later married.
1939 Register:
1939 Mary O'Keefe is living in Nazareth House, Cheltenham (which is listed in the census after the General Hospital, looks like special census returns for institutions) , one of several nuns, M Mildred Okeefe (Sr) Officer born. 04 Mar 1868 Sister Of Nazareth Single. Various nuns, then retired people & closed records probably children?
1939 Eliza (Dunwell) and Helen O'Keefe - 232 Carmel Rd, Darlington. Unusually Eliza is listed first, before Austen, then Helen. Eliza married Austen in 1915. Probably between 1911 & 1939 Helen had kept house for her brother George at Egerton Lodge, Manchester. I assume their brother George had died by 1939 but not sure when he died.
Agnes d. Manchester (can't find death registration record) Info from Aunty Kath: was a nun all her life and worked in Liverpool on the dockside. I was told the sailors built her and her fried a hut to shelter in. When she retired they gave her an umbrella and a shawl. She spent some of her last days in Crikieth, Wales. info from Anne Bailey Then she was moved to Nazareth House, Manchester, where she died and I went to her funeral, representing my parents who were in South Africa at the time. We entertained Sister Campion (Agnes) and a companion at our bungalow in Bramhall.
Deaths
1944 Mary A dies Cheltenham
1944 Elizabeth dies Co Durham
1945 Eliza dies at Darlington
1959 Frances dies at Darlington
Agnes at Manchester
Helen - Likely at Darlington or Manchester
Brothers: James 1880-1883, Joseph 1973-1958, William 1882-1959
1871 Glaisdale: 4 Carr End, Glaisdale. John Keefe 35, booking clerk, out of employ, Elizabeth Keefe 25, Mary Anna Keefe 3, Helen Keefe 1. John's age given as 35, wife is 25, whereas in 1861 his age is given as 28. Has he lowered his age slightly to narrow the gap a bit to only 10 years!
1881 Glaisdale: John Keeffe 46, Elizabeth Keeffe 36, Mary A. Keeffe 13, Helen Keeffe 11, George Keeffe 9, Joseph Keeffe 8, Eliza Keeffe 6, Elizabeth Keeffe 3, James Keeffe 1
1891 Glaisdale: 11 Aincliffe Terrace. John Keefe 55, block signalman, Elizabeth Keefe 45, Elizabeth Keefe 13, William Keefe 9, Frances Keefe 5, Agnes Keefe 2
1891 Blossom St, St Mary's Convent, York: Ellen O'Keefe 21 b. Glasidale is General Servant Domestic (1 of several), various staff and girls being educated. Was she a nun then?
1891 1 Broomfield Terrace, Ruswarp. Eliza is a domestic servant at the Private School of Miss Smurthwaite (born Stokesley) where her Aunt Hannah Mary Barker is a teacher of music, later the Principal. In 1915 Eliza marries Austin Dunwell (brickmaker born Egton Bridge), and moves to Darlington.
1891 - Mary - not found - maybe at Sisters of nazareth?
1895; Miss E O'Keefe of Glaisdale, in 1895, gains honours in the Intermediate Music Exams at Stockton (Trinity College London) and in 1896 she passes the Senior Division of Musical Theoretical Examination. I think that is Eliza, could be Elizabeth. I (Karen) think it's likelt to be Eliza too because of the music connection - see Aunt Hannah, teacher of music, above.
1901 Egton Bridge. John O keefe 64 railway Signalman, Elizabeth O keefe 54, Frances O keefe 15, Agnes O keefe, 12, Celia Glen 7 adopted daughter b. bradford, Norah Lundrigan 5 adopted dau b. Bradford. Next schedule is Station Hotel, then Leyburn Hall
1901 Mary Anna - not found
1901 Stokesley, Lancs - Rev John Conlan 43. Ellen Okeeffe 30 Servant - she is Housekeeper for a Catholic priest in Stokesley, John Conlan born Ireland aged 43.
1901 Eliza and Elizabeth are at Carr End/View and Eliza gives her occupation as "Dressmaker" In 1899 and in 1900 these Misses Keefe are having paying guests at Carr End Glaisdale.
Boarding houses in Manchester.
1911 Census we have Eliza, Helen and George Keeffe - The address was 4 Alexandra Road South. Eliza is head and Boarding House Keeper, helen is Assistant Borading House keeper, George is Boarder.
The house has 14 rooms and is opposite a plant nursery (Alfred James Downes, nurseryman and florist) and opposite the new English Martyrs Catholic Church. It is adjacent to the Methodist Training College and a little further down the road is a big Catholic boarding school and the home of the Bishop - St Bede's College/St Bede's Lodge, also a Convent and girl's school. There is also a house numbered 4a. On Scotland Old Maps you can see the area around 1911 or thereabouts and there are two semis opposite the church and nursery which I think might be the property. It is a very prestigious address and the other houses are great mansions with the Chief of Police adjacent and other professionals. The rooms at number 4 are taken by various lodgers all sounding most respectable. How did they get there? Were they renting? Obviously George has moved to Manchester -and the sisters have followed him to look after him and/or set up a little business? Did they just all move in renting and then by some fluke were asked to run the place? Perhaps it was a job that they saw advertised or something like that. It must have been after 1901 when George was already by himself lodging in Moss Side and Eliza and Helen were elsewhere. What happened to George's domestic service when Eliza married Austin Dunwell?
In 1911 Elizabeth O'Keefe is also keeping a Boarding House in Manchester at 8 Claremont Rd Alexandra Park (8 rooms) . Elizabeth Keefe 38 Boarding House Keeper, Cecila Glenn 16 boarder and variour other boarders. In 1924 she marries John grayson in Lanchester district, Co Durham. She dies Jan 1944. [In 1939 register I found 2 possible Elizabeth Graysons in Co Durham, one with spouse John on a farm and he is a Horse keeper, So I'm not sure this is very likely.]
Karen has just found the notes that tell of Mary Anna being a Sister of Nazareth.
In 1911 Sister Mildred (Mary Anna) is one of 4 nuns helping to run Nazareth House school for boys in Treforest Pontypool, Wales. In 1919-1922 a Sr Mildred is Superior at this school - probably our Mary.
1911 Frances O'Keefe in 1911, is working as a bar attendant/rest room at Central Station Hotel Newcastle but progresses to Book Keeper. I think I remember Aunty Kath telling me that the Dunwell's had a care of her since they had no children of their own. Aunty Kath told me (Karen) that Frances went with a friend - Miss race - to study book-keeping at evening classes in York.
1911 Agnes - not yet found. Also was a nun - same order as Mary Anna- died in Manchester. Apparently Elizabeth also spent some time in a convent but came out and later married.
1939 Register:
1939 Mary O'Keefe is living in Nazareth House, Cheltenham (which is listed in the census after the General Hospital, looks like special census returns for institutions) , one of several nuns, M Mildred Okeefe (Sr) Officer born. 04 Mar 1868 Sister Of Nazareth Single. Various nuns, then retired people & closed records probably children?
1939 Eliza (Dunwell) and Helen O'Keefe - 232 Carmel Rd, Darlington. Unusually Eliza is listed first, before Austen, then Helen. Eliza married Austen in 1915. Probably between 1911 & 1939 Helen had kept house for her brother George at Egerton Lodge, Manchester. I assume their brother George had died by 1939 but not sure when he died.
Agnes d. Manchester (can't find death registration record) Info from Aunty Kath: was a nun all her life and worked in Liverpool on the dockside. I was told the sailors built her and her fried a hut to shelter in. When she retired they gave her an umbrella and a shawl. She spent some of her last days in Crikieth, Wales. info from Anne Bailey Then she was moved to Nazareth House, Manchester, where she died and I went to her funeral, representing my parents who were in South Africa at the time. We entertained Sister Campion (Agnes) and a companion at our bungalow in Bramhall.
Deaths
1944 Mary A dies Cheltenham
1944 Elizabeth dies Co Durham
1945 Eliza dies at Darlington
1959 Frances dies at Darlington
Agnes at Manchester
Helen - Likely at Darlington or Manchester
Brothers: James 1880-1883, Joseph 1973-1958, William 1882-1959
John O'Keefe's children's names
It was traditional in UK to name children after family members - grandparents & parents .
In Ireland, first sons were named after their paternal Grandfather, 2nd sons after maternal Grandfather, 1st daughters often after their maternal Grandmother, 2nd daughters for paternal Grandmother. Following children would then named for their parents, oldest uncles and aunts and then other family members.
Sometimes children were named after family members who had died recently
So for John and O'keefe we have the following:
Mary Anna 1868 Mary - maternal Gt Aunt (religion?)
Anna - maternal Grandmother & mat aunt
Mary - Gt Gt Grandmother d.1810, but this seems too far back
Helen (Ellen) 1870 -
George 1871 maternal Grandfather
Joseph 1873 maternal Gt Grandfather (religion?)
Eliza 1875 -
Elizabeth 1877 mother & maternal Gt Grandmother & Gt Aunt
James 1880 -
William Barker 1882 maternal Uncle & Gt Uncle + mother's maiden name
Frances 1886 maternal step-Grandmother
Agnes 1888 -
Note absence of name Richard - paternal Father, maternal Grandfather
Note absence of name John - father
Possibly no Richard or John as only 3 sons
Note: So Is Mary named for religioius reasons
or is she possibly named for paternal grandmother, John's mother?
who is Helen / Ellen named for? 2nd daughter - John's Mother / Grandmother?
who is Eliza named for
who is Agnes named for?
In Ireland, first sons were named after their paternal Grandfather, 2nd sons after maternal Grandfather, 1st daughters often after their maternal Grandmother, 2nd daughters for paternal Grandmother. Following children would then named for their parents, oldest uncles and aunts and then other family members.
Sometimes children were named after family members who had died recently
So for John and O'keefe we have the following:
Mary Anna 1868 Mary - maternal Gt Aunt (religion?)
Anna - maternal Grandmother & mat aunt
Mary - Gt Gt Grandmother d.1810, but this seems too far back
Helen (Ellen) 1870 -
George 1871 maternal Grandfather
Joseph 1873 maternal Gt Grandfather (religion?)
Eliza 1875 -
Elizabeth 1877 mother & maternal Gt Grandmother & Gt Aunt
James 1880 -
William Barker 1882 maternal Uncle & Gt Uncle + mother's maiden name
Frances 1886 maternal step-Grandmother
Agnes 1888 -
Note absence of name Richard - paternal Father, maternal Grandfather
Note absence of name John - father
Possibly no Richard or John as only 3 sons
Note: So Is Mary named for religioius reasons
or is she possibly named for paternal grandmother, John's mother?
who is Helen / Ellen named for? 2nd daughter - John's Mother / Grandmother?
who is Eliza named for
who is Agnes named for?
Monday, 9 April 2018
O'Keefe Teachers
Cork Directory 1845:
Teacher O’Keeffe Mathias 24 Pope’s Quay
Teacher O’Keeffe Mr. 7 Adelaide Street
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